Ep 02 The Breakthrough Leadership Dr Ivan Misner and Anagha Deshmukh

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome, everyone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Ivan Meisner is the founder and chief visionary officer of B&I.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The world's largest business networking organization which he founded in 1985.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Today, B&I spans more than 11,800 chapters across 77 countries and has generated over $26 billion in business for its members last year, just through referrals.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Ivan is also called the Father of Modern Networking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And Dr. Eisner is a New York Times best selling author of 32 books, including the book Networking is a marathon not a sprint.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And he's the recipient of the Maxwell Leadership Award.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And beyond business, he's a philanthropist, world traveler, black belt and karate, and also a magician.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel very privileged.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a amateur magician.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a amateur magician, all right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel very privileged to have learned so many principles of business from Ivan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Myzner, welcome to the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for being here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And please call me Ivan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Ivan, can you please take us back to 1985?

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[SPEAKER_00]: All the way back to 1985.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you had this one idea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And what problem were you trying to solve when you created business networks international?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I started being an I, um,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because there was no platform that I liked that was focused on, you know, helping people get referrals in a structured way sort of the idea began in 1984.

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[SPEAKER_01]: When I went to a lot of networking organizations that were really mercenary, everyone was trying to sell to me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I would leave those meetings feeling like I'd been slimmed, you know, people were just sell sell sell.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I had to go and get a shower.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then I went to these other groups that were totally social, it's happy our and our nerves and the way you're doing business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What I wanted was an organization that was business oriented, but not transactional, and was relational, but not totally social.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the glue that would hold it together is this philosophy of Kevin's can.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I ran it by some friends in December of 84, and we agreed to do it in January 1985.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We started one group, and I'd like to tell you at this vision of an international organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: them to help me get referrals from my consulting practice.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it just took off.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I struck a court in the business community that I hadn't anticipated, and people kept asking me to help them open up a group for them in another group and another group.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the reason for it is that we don't teach this in colleges and universities anywhere in the world.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We don't teach networking or for a marketing none of that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is so breakthrough for those times in 1985.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we didn't have internet and we didn't have AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it must be through papers and hard copies that you were broadcasting about it, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Or was it on radio or TV?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, we didn't do too much radio until I started writing books.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What I when I discovered, I hope this would be, and it was, you know, when I went to the

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now with podcasts, you know, you get a lot of media coverage.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I do, I do up about 150 interviews a year, but back then it was hard to get it because if I didn't have a book, you know, if I went to them and said, hey, you know, would you talk about this knocking thing that I've done they'd say taken a hat out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We, you know, we're not going to talk about being like, but I was hoping when I started writing books that the media would

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[SPEAKER_01]: interview me about the content, which is what I wanted.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to get the content out and along the way they'd ask me something about P&I.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What I discovered is the media will interview any idiot with a book and I have 32, so I get lots and lots of interviews.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But that happened after I really started writing books in the 90s, early 90s.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when did you start calling it business networks international?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when did it go global?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What was the pivotal moment for you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was in the late 80s that we changed the name to B&I.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The trademark name is B&I.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not a good idea to do it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The original name was the network, and that was not trade markable.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't trade mark that it was too generic.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to come up with another name.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And at that time, I couldn't get business in our international as a trade mark for whatever reasons.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we just went with the initials of B&I.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we do have the trade mark on both now, but we go by B&I.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Fabulous, you have the trade mark now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, there was something I have learned from you, which is very, very valuable.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I learned from you that before strategy for any business, for any founder, values come first.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Can you please tell more about that?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Can you expand on that of why values come first?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, culture, each strategy for breakfast, culture is the secret sauce to a successful organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And healthy organizational culture is the DNA of the company.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what creates culture are core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so an organization has to get really good with their core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if someone's watching or listening, and they're wondering, okay, well, I need to start thinking about my core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Take a look at what your organizational traditions are.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The traditions that your organization is applying that are effective and that are positive, those are what can become your core values and then your core values create your culture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, as the founder of an organization or the executive of an organization, you have to be the culture champion, which means you need to be talking about core values regularly if you want to get people to really implement the core values of the organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that I just love about P&I is that our principal core value is giver's gain that if you're going to join a network, you have to come on in understanding that you have to give first, you have to help other people and build a relationship and then they'll help you return.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what I love about it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: is you can go anywhere in the world and walk into a B&I chapter.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Any of the 11,800 chapters that we have, and you say, let's the principal core value of this organization in a couple words.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I am telling you 99.9% of the chapters will say, give us gain, or whatever the translated version of that is and all the different languages, give us gain.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It has become part of the DNA of the organization.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you truly are a magician.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's hard to get that culture all across so many chapters across the world.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is your magic trick behind it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is your secret that it has the same culture across any country you go to in spite of its local culture?

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[SPEAKER_00]: How have you maintained this value?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's talk about the local culture for a second.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There are many different cultures, and obviously with us being in more than 75 countries where in countries that are significantly different culturally.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But what we forget is that there is a culture of entrepreneurism.

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[SPEAKER_01]: that entrepreneurs in every entrepreneurial nation want to do things more effectively or more efficiently.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you can teach these entrepreneurs, these business people, how to do something more effectively and more efficiently.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Within their cultural context, we're not asking them to change their culture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What we have done is put an overlay, a system on top of the existing culture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that overlay or that system helps people generate referrals.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you said it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We passed the latest number for the last 12 months of 17 million referrals, and I think it's 27 billion.

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[SPEAKER_01]: billion with a B, US dollars, and thank you for closed business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now that's what members report.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's self-reported, how much money they made.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now here's the amazing thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just love this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you take a look at United Nations estimates of GDP, gross domestic product, there are actually 100, 100 countries in the world with a lower GDP than what being I generated for its members in the preceding 12 months.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That is just to me, that's just humbling what being I has become, we're impacting communities all around the world.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Have there been any other organizations that have modeled after you and trying to emulate

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, absolutely, there are, you know, a lot of, everyone on business has competitors.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can replicate a system, but replicating core values or hard, implementing core values, and then doing it at scale.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's what becomes really difficult.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we've been successful at doing it at scale

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[SPEAKER_01]: really implementing the core guys.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, a lot of competitive organizations, and I love these organizations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One in particular was here in Texas years ago, and they put on their website where B&I, without the rules.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And my local director is just furious, you know, we need to have lawyers take that down and I'm like, no, no, you got to keep that up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And she said, no, I'm lost five members to that organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, okay, all right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What five members?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we have a system called traffic lights that tells you how strong a member you are, how active I'll engage you are.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're in the green, man, you're one of the top members.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yellow, you're good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Red, you need to work great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're a problem member.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're what we call a minnow, a member in name only.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're not really engaged.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All five, we're in the gray.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I said to her, they're doing you a favor.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're taking away your bad members.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can replace them with good members because we only take one person per profession, or professional classification.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, there are competitors.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they tend to try to replicate the system, but you can't replicate the culture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We do have rules.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we apply the rules.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But we say apply the rules more like Mandela than Attila.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, it tough love, you know, when you get a member that's, that's not engaged, sit down with them and ask, how can we help you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: How can we help you bring more referrals or bring, you know, more visitors into the group, you know, hockey without rules would be boxing on ice.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You got to have rules, and a lot of business people don't get that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so they want to do what's easier, but what's easier is rarely, rarely best.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for sharing that, that's a profound, and I want to ask you a little bit more digging here into, you know, how do we bring in values into our organization?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So to the founders and leaders listening to this, let's say somebody has a very large organization like yours across the globe, and on the walls, you know, when we enter the lobby and everything the values are written there, and maybe the employees look at it, it goes in their heart and their minds, or maybe not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: how do you kind of make it a daily culture that if you get anybody in the hallway and ask them what are the top three values?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Are you exuding them?

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[SPEAKER_00]: How does it become a fabric of the company?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is the journey and what should these founders do for that?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well it goes back to being a culture champion.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The executives have to be a culture champion.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of ways that you can do that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Starting with in our organization,

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[SPEAKER_01]: and bootcamp is usually two weeks long can be longer for some positions.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They don't start their job full time until they complete bootcamp.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And one element of the bootcamp is learning the core values to be able to repeat back to core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the other aspects of bootcamp is their last, their bootcamp final is to have an hour with me, where they just ask questions about the core values about the history, about, you know, and those, that's a chance for me to be the culture champion.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Then you do other things like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: the previous CEO, I need to find out of Mary, our currency, you know, does this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's brilliant.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Previously, you know, Graham, every staff meeting he started, he would, he would pick an employee and say, what's what's one of your favorite core values in B&I and why?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So people had people knew when they came in, he was gonna pick somebody, and he's gonna say, what's one of the, and those courvellers were not on the wall.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they had to know what the courvellers were, and then talk about it, which I think is brilliant.

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[SPEAKER_01]: On top of that,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Every single member is required to go through member success program training, and guess what?

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[SPEAKER_01]: In member success program training, we talk about the core values of B&I.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We have a program called B&I Academy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, for everybody who's listening to this, I'm giving you B&I examples, but there's no reason why you can't do the same things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You use an executive can pick somebody in a staff meeting to talk about the core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can do a boot camp where they have to go through the boot core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: MSP training, they go through the core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then on top of that, I've done videos on all seven of B&I's core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, there are eight videos.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One is, why are core values important?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Culture, read strategy for breakfast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a big picture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then I do seven additional videos that all the members worldwide.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We have 356,000 members, I believe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, they all can see these videos.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they're short three, four, five minutes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So the answer to your question is touchpoints.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a program, it's an ongoing process.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's an ongoing process, you can inculcate it into the cultural reorganization.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And what happens if there is an employee who is a hyper-former, but they're not exuding these values.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You already talked to them on a lot of the system a couple of times, and they're not becoming a fabric of the company, but bringing a lot of revenue to the company, or whatever they do, they're really good at it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've had people who were good at what they did, but they didn't live the core values of the organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we would sit down and talk.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if that behavior didn't change, I let them go.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is it's not just productivity.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's behavior.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It is the attitude that you bring to the table.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's the environment that you create around you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And one person I'm thinking of in particular was very productive, but he created chaos in his and large department because he was difficult to get along with and he didn't practice the core values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I had lunch, Harvey McKay who wrote the book, swim at the sharks with that getting eaten alive.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I had lunch with him years ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he said something very profound to me, he said, I have lost more sleep.

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[SPEAKER_01]: over the people I've kept in the people I've let go during my career.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, I don't like letting go of people, but I've lost more sleep over the people I've kept because they kept creating chaos within the organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you throw them a lifeline.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You try to ask them how you can help them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if they don't turn around, cut them loose.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And let me put to your audience.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I bet you you're an entire audience.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I bet you've experienced this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Where you've taken on a client who, you know, if they're going to be a good client, you're going to make good money.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, a year later, you've like, why did I take on this client?

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're nothing but trouble.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're good money, but they're nothing but trouble.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then you end up cutting loose your own client, or you keep dealing with the trouble, which I don't recommend.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, we all know this to be true, but it's hard to turn down the money sometimes, or the productivity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have tried to remember that always while working with a client because when you're a founder and you're having new business, new clients, you're not so mindful about their values, while hiring employees, I've been mindful about this guidance from you, about values, always.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to first screen them for their values and then for their skills, but with clients, it's so hard when you're a founder, you're going, wow, this is big business and you lose sight

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the only way they don't have to be the same values.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They just can't be incongruent, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have to have the same values that you have.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But they have to be congruent with your organizational values.

18:01.335 --> 18:01.996
[SPEAKER_01]: That's important.

18:02.616 --> 18:04.899
[SPEAKER_01]: And when they're not, that's when it creates chaos.

18:05.319 --> 18:10.965
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you expand on that, please, like, give more examples of what you mean by congruent and incongruent values?

18:11.296 --> 18:16.779
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I talk about this in a book I wrote called Who's In Your Room, and it's about the people that you surround yourself with.

18:17.379 --> 18:22.382
[SPEAKER_01]: And I use an example, and here I'm gonna say resonance and dissonance.

18:23.023 --> 18:25.704
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can grow in congruent resonance or dissonance.

18:25.724 --> 18:31.527
[SPEAKER_01]: And what you want are to find people that have resonant values that they're not dissoned with yours.

18:32.008 --> 18:33.489
[SPEAKER_01]: And I use in the book an example.

18:33.589 --> 18:35.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm not a musician, but I've seen this happen.

18:35.730 --> 18:36.810
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it with my own eyes.

18:36.830 --> 18:37.731
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard it with my own ears.

18:38.863 --> 18:44.164
[SPEAKER_01]: two pianos sitting side by side, two people sitting at each one person at each piano.

18:45.785 --> 19:03.608
[SPEAKER_01]: One person hits the middle C key of piano number one, and the second person on piano number two just presses the sustain pedal, doesn't hit a key, and the second piano hums, it vibrates.

19:06.997 --> 19:08.037
[SPEAKER_01]: That's resonance.

19:08.778 --> 19:11.599
[SPEAKER_01]: And you see that with people who work well together.

19:11.939 --> 19:15.060
[SPEAKER_01]: There's resonance and not this dissonance or incongruence.

19:15.800 --> 19:17.881
[SPEAKER_01]: And you want to look for resonance people.

19:18.141 --> 19:19.561
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean that you always agree.

19:20.882 --> 19:23.422
[SPEAKER_01]: You just, you can disagree with that being disagreeable.

19:24.583 --> 19:31.565
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the strategy that I try to employ within my organization is to disagree with that being disagreeable.

19:32.175 --> 19:33.136
[SPEAKER_00]: that totally makes sense.

19:33.496 --> 19:52.869
[SPEAKER_00]: So now when AI is coming in and every all the skills are looking the same and maybe even the values on the top might look the same because AI might be creating these websites and it's just throwing words out there through AI when you create these websites through different tools.

19:53.670 --> 19:57.893
[SPEAKER_00]: So how are people going to really adhere to this particular,

19:58.693 --> 20:02.936
[SPEAKER_00]: aspect of holding onto their values when AI is changing everything so rapidly.

20:04.577 --> 20:06.118
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, AI doesn't have to change your values.

20:07.219 --> 20:09.540
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, giver's AI doesn't change giver's gain.

20:09.560 --> 20:11.722
[SPEAKER_01]: AI doesn't change lifelong learning.

20:11.782 --> 20:15.284
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't change traditions plus innovation.

20:15.344 --> 20:18.807
[SPEAKER_01]: As a matter of fact, that's one of our core values, traditions plus innovation.

20:19.487 --> 20:21.468
[SPEAKER_01]: AI fits traditions plus innovation.

20:21.488 --> 20:22.069
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't change

20:27.933 --> 20:30.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Recognition, you know, these are our core values.

20:30.416 --> 20:33.159
[SPEAKER_01]: So AI doesn't have to change your core values.

20:34.400 --> 20:37.143
[SPEAKER_01]: Your core value should be applied within the context of AI.

20:37.163 --> 20:47.334
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let's talk about AI talking about AI right now is a little bit like 1995 talking about what the internet is gonna be like.

20:49.162 --> 20:50.643
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the wild west.

20:50.943 --> 20:59.327
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people really didn't, they had this internet and you could email people, but then they started doing websites by 95 or so.

20:59.347 --> 20:59.607
[SPEAKER_01]: And,

21:02.523 --> 21:04.565
[SPEAKER_01]: We had no idea that I mean, look at us.

21:04.605 --> 21:08.690
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking to each other from completely different cities, but possibly different countries.

21:09.130 --> 21:13.235
[SPEAKER_01]: I talked to people from all over the world and face to face.

21:13.255 --> 21:21.844
[SPEAKER_01]: So yet, it's too dimensional, but we didn't really predict that with the internet because it was dial-up back then, it was really, really slow.

21:22.525 --> 21:22.645
[SPEAKER_01]: So

21:24.972 --> 21:33.979
[SPEAKER_01]: What I tell business people is embrace the technology because if you do not embrace the technology, you will be disrupted.

21:34.679 --> 21:36.140
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

21:36.401 --> 21:41.965
[SPEAKER_01]: I will disrupt any business that doesn't embrace it effectively.

21:42.005 --> 21:47.610
[SPEAKER_01]: Now people think, be a nice, you know, an in-person networking organization, although in COVID-19 we went online.

21:49.428 --> 21:51.169
[SPEAKER_01]: But we've always embraced technology.

21:51.229 --> 21:59.193
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't have a three-letter domain, BNI.com if you didn't embrace the internet early.

22:00.213 --> 22:06.537
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I don't want my company and viewers and listeners.

22:07.925 --> 22:11.430
[SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't want your company to be disrupted by new technologies.

22:12.512 --> 22:14.935
[SPEAKER_01]: And it happens to, it happens to so many.

22:15.336 --> 22:16.778
[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite example is Kodak.

22:17.519 --> 22:22.326
[SPEAKER_01]: Kodak invented the digital camera.

22:23.027 --> 22:38.144
[SPEAKER_01]: Kodak had the patent on the digital camera and their executives decided that they didn't want to pursue digital cameras so they licensed it out because they didn't want to take away business from their film processing.

22:39.015 --> 23:03.088
[SPEAKER_01]: right so there was even a vice president who wrote a memo that said yeah let's license the digital cameras out besides who's ever going to look at photographs on a computer that was in his memo talk about disruption right now think about this codec could have been the iPhone could have been the iPhone I mean

23:05.023 --> 23:06.964
[SPEAKER_01]: And Apple did computers.

23:07.485 --> 23:09.806
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would they go to phones with cameras?

23:11.047 --> 23:16.250
[SPEAKER_01]: Codec was closer to that industry in the sense that, what if we did phones with cameras?

23:17.551 --> 23:20.473
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's use our digital patent to do that.

23:21.133 --> 23:22.454
[SPEAKER_01]: Codec could have been Apple.

23:23.655 --> 23:28.658
[SPEAKER_01]: But instead, they said, no, we don't want this technology to disrupt us.

23:29.650 --> 23:30.551
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's my point.

23:30.811 --> 23:35.654
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to say AI, I don't want to embrace AI, you're going to get disrupted.

23:36.354 --> 23:38.256
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to either embrace it or be out of business.

23:38.316 --> 23:38.996
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my opinion.

23:40.517 --> 23:41.058
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's great.

23:41.138 --> 23:44.300
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great tip for everyone, especially the quarterback example.

23:44.840 --> 23:48.903
[SPEAKER_00]: The bend in the road, you have to be aware about the bend in the road and try to move along with it.

23:49.400 --> 23:56.605
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is very profound, and I'm taking it very seriously and trying to observe the patterns and what other businesses are doing as well.

23:57.105 --> 24:02.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So, looks like values will, in fact, differentiate companies rather than making them look the same.

24:04.250 --> 24:15.117
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if you have good core values that are being effectively implemented, AI shouldn't impact your core values, not really.

24:17.514 --> 24:20.756
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm going to switch gears a little bit and ask you about networking.

24:20.876 --> 24:35.107
[SPEAKER_00]: I've learned from you firsthand about the rules 72430 and I will confess that I really don't always get to it and get to the networking and following up with people because sometimes life just gets busy.

24:35.687 --> 24:41.031
[SPEAKER_00]: But can you please talk about it so our viewers and audiences can also use the rule about networking.

24:42.135 --> 24:45.277
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, there's, I mean, there's, I could spend two, three hours.

24:45.357 --> 24:48.399
[SPEAKER_01]: I could spend the whole day talking about, you know, please, no, it's too much.

24:48.419 --> 24:48.899
[SPEAKER_01]: It's too much.

24:48.939 --> 24:49.499
[SPEAKER_01]: It's too much.

24:50.080 --> 24:56.764
[SPEAKER_01]: But let me start with, before I hit the 24, 730, which is the follow-up, how do you follow up when you meet people?

24:57.623 --> 25:00.164
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me talk about what I think people do wrong with networking.

25:00.424 --> 25:03.505
[SPEAKER_01]: They use networking as a face-to-face, cold-calling opportunity.

25:03.525 --> 25:05.766
[SPEAKER_01]: They say, hi, my name's Sohn, so let's do business.

25:05.966 --> 25:08.687
[SPEAKER_01]: And they try to jump right into direct selling.

25:08.727 --> 25:11.328
[SPEAKER_01]: They use it as direct selling as opposed to relationship building.

25:12.008 --> 25:16.409
[SPEAKER_01]: And so networking should be really about relationship building.

25:16.730 --> 25:19.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, working is more about farming than it is about hunting.

25:19.150 --> 25:19.991
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's done right.

25:21.291 --> 25:25.533
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people ask, okay, so I meet people at an networking event.

25:25.813 --> 25:26.633
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I follow up?

25:27.751 --> 25:31.713
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a simple process, it's called 24, 730.

25:32.254 --> 25:40.879
[SPEAKER_01]: Within 24 hours of meeting somebody, reach out to them and drop them an email, write down, note or a card and send it to them.

25:41.399 --> 25:44.321
[SPEAKER_01]: And say, hey, it was really nice meeting you at the event last night.

25:45.181 --> 25:47.182
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed our conversation on such instruction.

25:47.202 --> 25:53.186
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I recommend that you take a little no pad and write comments about the people you meet or

25:55.036 --> 26:03.714
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't work on all of culture, cultures you may be aware of this, you know, and certainly in North America, people don't care if you write on their business card.

26:04.549 --> 26:07.972
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say, hey, don't do mine if I write down on your business card in this, you OK?

26:08.132 --> 26:10.794
[SPEAKER_01]: In Asian cultures, that's don't do that.

26:10.994 --> 26:14.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't even ask if it's OK.

26:14.677 --> 26:18.380
[SPEAKER_01]: It's inappropriate to write on a card in many Asian countries.

26:18.880 --> 26:19.941
[SPEAKER_01]: So take a no-pad with you.

26:20.962 --> 26:25.546
[SPEAKER_01]: Write something down that you can state when you reach out to them within 24 hours.

26:26.086 --> 26:29.088
[SPEAKER_01]: It was nice talking to you about XYZ.

26:33.952 --> 26:41.122
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, one of the things you want to ask when you're talking to them when you meet them is what your favorite social media platform.

26:41.682 --> 26:48.471
[SPEAKER_01]: So for me, it's Facebook, LinkedIn, I may have got almost getting close to 600,000 followers on Facebook.

26:48.532 --> 26:50.915
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where I have most most people following me.

26:52.405 --> 26:57.049
[SPEAKER_01]: And so find out where their favorite place is, and then connect with them there.

26:57.109 --> 26:58.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's not your favorite place.

26:59.210 --> 27:01.212
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's why I learned that's important.

27:01.692 --> 27:03.953
[SPEAKER_01]: When my kids were teenagers, my oldest is 40.

27:04.534 --> 27:12.820
[SPEAKER_01]: My oldest is 33, but when they were teenagers, my oldest, I would call her and a shoe dancer.

27:13.995 --> 27:16.736
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but if I text it her, she'll just find immediately.

27:17.156 --> 27:21.377
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember sitting down at dinner with her once and saying, you know honey, this is a telephone.

27:22.177 --> 27:27.959
[SPEAKER_01]: You can hear here on this right at her and then you can speak here and you can actually talk and he's like whatever dad.

27:28.499 --> 27:32.420
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I just learned that if I wanted to talk to her, I had to text her.

27:34.100 --> 27:37.481
[SPEAKER_01]: My next job, I would call nothing.

27:37.521 --> 27:38.341
[SPEAKER_01]: I would text nothing.

27:39.022 --> 27:42.763
[SPEAKER_01]: I spoke to my wife, and I said, a Dorian's not responding.

27:43.123 --> 27:45.444
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to connect with them on WhatsApp.

27:45.884 --> 27:48.965
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Dorian's 35, WhatsApp was new.

27:49.265 --> 27:54.247
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was 15, 20 years ago, and I said, what's up?

27:54.267 --> 27:55.107
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what that is.

27:55.627 --> 27:58.368
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my wife had done WhatsApp.

27:58.628 --> 27:59.309
[SPEAKER_01]: And I tested it.

27:59.709 --> 28:01.109
[SPEAKER_01]: I called, I texted nothing.

28:01.169 --> 28:03.470
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched App Dorian boom, responded.

28:04.647 --> 28:05.908
[SPEAKER_01]: go where they go.

28:06.448 --> 28:07.488
[SPEAKER_01]: Last one was my son.

28:07.508 --> 28:12.570
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't like, he didn't talk on the phone, he didn't text, he didn't like what's up.

28:12.770 --> 28:13.510
[SPEAKER_01]: But he was a gamer.

28:14.591 --> 28:17.212
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was on this online platform called Steam.

28:18.612 --> 28:26.095
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I got on to Steam and I bought a game because there was an instant messaging feature on Steam.

28:26.656 --> 28:30.917
[SPEAKER_01]: So I could instant message my son and he responded immediately.

28:31.097 --> 28:32.038
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what what

28:33.113 --> 28:34.455
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I didn't respond immediately.

28:34.935 --> 28:47.390
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm telling you the story about my kids because if I wanted to communicate with my children, it was important that I go where they were, where they wanted to communicate.

28:47.751 --> 28:49.433
[SPEAKER_01]: Not where I wanted to communicate.

28:50.343 --> 28:52.484
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same in your follow-up.

28:53.085 --> 29:01.850
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to go, if you think there can be a professional relationship, a business relationship with this person, you want to go where they are, not where you are.

29:02.650 --> 29:05.972
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why you want to find out what their favorite social media platform.

29:07.427 --> 29:11.289
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last, and by the way, I'm both don't sell to them, okay?

29:11.449 --> 29:12.530
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't sell to them.

29:12.650 --> 29:14.531
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about making building a relationship.

29:15.171 --> 29:19.434
[SPEAKER_01]: The last, within 30 days, reach out to them and say, hey, I'd love to do a one-to-one with you.

29:19.854 --> 29:23.596
[SPEAKER_01]: Ideally in person, cup of coffee, glass of wine, whatever.

29:24.016 --> 29:25.977
[SPEAKER_01]: Get together and have a one-to-one.

29:26.077 --> 29:28.538
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to learn more about what you do.

29:29.539 --> 29:34.662
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, you know, hopefully they're gonna be willing to learn about what I do as well.

29:35.712 --> 29:38.534
[SPEAKER_01]: and don't sell to them.

29:39.114 --> 29:41.696
[SPEAKER_01]: Even then, I call it a sales seizure.

29:42.016 --> 29:46.398
[SPEAKER_01]: People just can't help themselves, and they just start trying to sell to someone.

29:46.799 --> 29:48.860
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't, you gotta build a relationship for us.

29:48.880 --> 29:49.760
[SPEAKER_01]: That has to be trust.

29:50.161 --> 29:54.483
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want people to refer business to you, they have to trust you.

29:54.823 --> 29:55.964
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the 24 and 730 follow-ups.

29:58.794 --> 30:03.419
[SPEAKER_00]: I have used it and I will tell you, it is very effective like night and day.

30:03.919 --> 30:05.941
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't take networking that seriously.

30:05.981 --> 30:14.089
[SPEAKER_00]: People used to say, hey, you have to go to this gathering and there's great people you're going to meet but it didn't mean as much till I met you in person and you talked about this rule.

30:14.470 --> 30:17.113
[SPEAKER_00]: I take it seriously but also I take a note pad with me.

30:18.225 --> 30:24.953
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned that, you know, writing my hand is different because usually people just put on their phones and they'll take a note.

30:25.374 --> 30:32.882
[SPEAKER_00]: But the note pad part really helped me, especially earlier this year, I worked with a lot of Oscar nominees and.

30:33.850 --> 30:37.331
[SPEAKER_00]: as they were coming and visiting, you know, I was writing this down, thinking about you.

30:37.671 --> 30:39.691
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was putting their where do they want to be reached?

30:40.031 --> 30:45.252
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they did give their cell phone numbers sometimes, but sometimes it was, oh, reach out to me on Instagram.

30:46.013 --> 30:51.094
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was, I didn't think it would be so different for all these people in the acting industry.

30:51.114 --> 30:52.514
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone had a different platform.

30:52.934 --> 30:58.035
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is when I truly understood what you're talking about that reached to them where they want to be reached out at.

30:58.595 --> 31:06.639
[SPEAKER_00]: And you took it, you know, you just went the extra mile with your son, who went sign up for a video game and then go there, I would never do that.

31:06.659 --> 31:15.703
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually that is so effective, I tried to call my son downstairs for dinner and sometimes some evocation he's not talking if the text can come for dinner.

31:15.803 --> 31:16.023
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

31:16.363 --> 31:17.665
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, you know, that's what we do.

31:17.845 --> 31:24.451
[SPEAKER_00]: The other one comes the order one comes downstairs, but the other one is the younger one is, you know, on the video game with friends.

31:24.491 --> 31:28.195
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that's what I'm going to try starting tomorrow or today.

31:28.215 --> 31:31.058
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can buy your game online game for, you know.

31:31.519 --> 31:32.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, $1.

31:33.060 --> 31:36.645
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I've seen some moms go on Snapchat and that's why they go now, I know.

31:39.048 --> 31:45.475
[SPEAKER_00]: So you also talked about, you know, the open the V and standing across from each other and went to enter.

31:45.856 --> 31:47.278
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk about that, too, please?

31:48.141 --> 31:55.570
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so when you walk into a room and this is particularly important for introverts who want to network, extroverts can walk up and talk to anybody.

31:56.711 --> 32:00.175
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody thinks that an extrovert is a great networker, but that's not always true.

32:00.695 --> 32:02.858
[SPEAKER_01]: And extroverted, they can walk up and talk to people.

32:04.620 --> 32:06.782
[SPEAKER_01]: But what's their favorite subject?

32:07.668 --> 32:08.128
[SPEAKER_01]: themselves.

32:08.929 --> 32:09.950
[SPEAKER_01]: So they talk about themselves.

32:10.491 --> 32:12.432
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas an introvert is better at listening.

32:12.853 --> 32:16.796
[SPEAKER_01]: A good navigator has one mouth and two ears and uses them both proportionally.

32:17.717 --> 32:18.738
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you should ask questions.

32:18.758 --> 32:21.200
[SPEAKER_01]: So introverts can be better at networking.

32:21.500 --> 32:24.463
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is they have a hard time walking up and meeting people.

32:24.823 --> 32:32.150
[SPEAKER_01]: So what you want to do is imagine you have a view from the ceiling or a balcony looking down on the room.

32:33.588 --> 32:36.950
[SPEAKER_01]: two people who are standing perpendicular to each other like this.

32:37.710 --> 32:39.431
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to break into that conversation.

32:40.512 --> 32:45.134
[SPEAKER_01]: But if they're standing like this, like a V, you're looking down, you're standing like this.

32:45.154 --> 32:47.595
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's a spot where you can come on in an introduce yourself.

32:48.716 --> 32:53.918
[SPEAKER_01]: A three people who are standing in a triangle, you can't break into that.

32:54.338 --> 32:58.481
[SPEAKER_01]: But three people that are standing like a U, it's easier to step in.

32:58.841 --> 33:01.762
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, for the introverts, this is totally counterintuitive,

33:03.812 --> 33:23.951
[SPEAKER_01]: The larger the open group, the easier it is for you to slip in, because it's slipping into two people, it's like you can really stand out and introverts, you know, they're a little cautious about that, so look for the larger groups that have an open spot and just slide on into the open spot and somebody at some point somebody's going to say hi, you know, my name's Ivan.

33:24.932 --> 33:26.513
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, what's your name, what do you do, whatever.

33:26.533 --> 33:28.274
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to start a conversation with you.

33:28.715 --> 33:36.240
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's counterintuitive, but the larger the open groups are, the easier it is for the introverts.

33:36.600 --> 33:37.781
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what you want to look for.

33:38.081 --> 33:40.763
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I train when I train on networking.

33:41.243 --> 33:47.627
[SPEAKER_01]: I say, if you're running a networking event, make sure to teach your members to stand in open

33:51.550 --> 33:58.614
[SPEAKER_01]: never stand in closed groups because it's hard for somebody to come in and join the conversation and it's effective.

33:59.435 --> 34:00.896
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's very helpful as well.

34:00.936 --> 34:02.617
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to encourage everyone to try this.

34:03.057 --> 34:05.238
[SPEAKER_00]: Be conscious about it when you stand with people.

34:05.459 --> 34:06.439
[SPEAKER_00]: It has been so effective.

34:06.479 --> 34:07.220
[SPEAKER_00]: It has worked for me.

34:07.800 --> 34:10.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely phenomenal guidance on this one.

34:11.162 --> 34:13.484
[SPEAKER_00]: I never thought about it before before you told me this.

34:20.647 --> 34:23.368
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to get it on Amazon.

34:24.468 --> 34:24.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

34:25.368 --> 34:29.709
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, you've been an icon in the leadership in this, you know, the terrain of leadership.

34:29.929 --> 34:32.910
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've got the Maxwell leadership award as well.

34:33.490 --> 34:38.991
[SPEAKER_00]: And leaders, I've noticed, they do some things behind the scenes or, you know, in their routine and their daily routine.

34:39.011 --> 34:40.371
[SPEAKER_00]: They do something very consistently.

34:40.711 --> 34:42.712
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter what happens, no matter how much I travel.

34:43.112 --> 34:44.112
[SPEAKER_00]: No, these are the things I do.

34:44.172 --> 34:45.272
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is what makes me.

34:45.652 --> 34:49.413
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been through some hardships and pictures on, maybe for health reasons or other reasons.

34:49.833 --> 34:54.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you take us, you know, behind the scenes into your life, like whatever you like to share?

34:55.215 --> 34:58.536
[SPEAKER_00]: Because becoming a leader is not just learning the networking skills.

34:58.556 --> 35:01.137
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot that happens behind the scenes as well.

35:01.577 --> 35:03.457
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you please share what happens?

35:04.558 --> 35:06.038
[SPEAKER_00]: How have you made yourself, you know?

35:06.058 --> 35:07.379
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you built?

35:07.419 --> 35:08.779
[SPEAKER_00]: You were not born like this.

35:08.839 --> 35:10.780
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you build yourself and all these kids?

35:10.800 --> 35:11.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was not born like this.

35:12.961 --> 35:19.746
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I was, you know, when I was 13, my mom, my mom gave me this paper weight, when I was 13, I'm 70 years old.

35:20.146 --> 35:22.988
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've had this paper weight weight for almost all my life.

35:23.629 --> 35:29.173
[SPEAKER_01]: And the paper weights is diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have your way.

35:29.813 --> 35:30.374
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll repeat that.

35:30.934 --> 35:34.137
[SPEAKER_01]: Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have your way.

35:35.113 --> 35:38.434
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom said, son, I love you, but you're a bull in a China shop.

35:38.454 --> 35:39.654
[SPEAKER_01]: You just like knock people over.

35:40.054 --> 35:42.134
[SPEAKER_01]: You have got to learn how to collaborate with people.

35:42.174 --> 35:43.875
[SPEAKER_01]: This is about collaboration, not manipulation.

35:44.635 --> 35:46.175
[SPEAKER_01]: And you got to learn how to collaborate with people.

35:46.195 --> 35:48.715
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was probably my first lesson on leadership.

35:48.755 --> 35:49.656
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was effective.

35:49.676 --> 35:53.156
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to remind myself of that from time to time.

35:54.136 --> 35:57.237
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's my overall philosophy about leadership.

36:05.299 --> 36:08.362
[SPEAKER_01]: Leadership is about mobilizing and inspiring.

36:09.983 --> 36:10.604
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll repeat that.

36:10.984 --> 36:12.886
[SPEAKER_01]: Leadership is not about managing and complying.

36:12.926 --> 36:15.308
[SPEAKER_01]: Leadership is about mobilizing and inspiring.

36:15.788 --> 36:19.829
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, management systems processes, they're important.

36:20.109 --> 36:21.230
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about that earlier.

36:21.650 --> 36:23.931
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying they're not important, but that's not leadership.

36:24.571 --> 36:25.291
[SPEAKER_01]: That's management.

36:25.991 --> 36:29.572
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're different skills that you might apply in different settings.

36:30.052 --> 36:38.595
[SPEAKER_01]: But leadership is about mobilizing people and inspiring people to be the best version of themselves.

36:38.895 --> 36:43.837
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a book, I did a book called the third paradigm.

36:46.922 --> 37:11.024
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not long, that's how long it is, it's the third paradigm, if your audience is all interested in seeing how I turned a disaster of really my own making into probably the most successful thing I did in my career.

37:12.894 --> 37:20.598
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are a lot of techniques on leadership during conflict in this book.

37:21.498 --> 37:24.260
[SPEAKER_01]: And the book, we surveyed a couple of thousand people to talk about.

37:24.560 --> 37:33.264
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, the third paradigm, first paradigm is competition, second paradigm is cooperation, the third paradigm is co-creation, which is sort of collaboration on steroids.

37:34.017 --> 37:45.402
[SPEAKER_01]: So we surveyed a couple of thousand people, we have some hard data, but we also, in every chapter, interwove a story about a guy named Richard and an online platform that he was developing.

37:45.742 --> 37:49.384
[SPEAKER_01]: And he talked about everything that went wrong and all the things he did wrong.

37:49.984 --> 37:52.525
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what he did to help turn the process around.

37:52.565 --> 37:54.726
[SPEAKER_01]: Now here's the secret that's not said in the book.

37:55.386 --> 37:55.866
[SPEAKER_01]: know where is it?

37:56.166 --> 38:15.736
[SPEAKER_01]: We say it's a true story, but what we don't say is that Richards my middle name and the story is about me and an online platform that I helped to develop in being I called being I connect, which is the platform that lets us know that we passed $27 billion in and thank you for closed business in the last 12 months.

38:15.756 --> 38:17.097
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a very important platform.

38:18.098 --> 38:18.558
[SPEAKER_01]: And in there,

38:23.372 --> 38:25.994
[SPEAKER_01]: And you want, you want two techniques that I'll give you two quick ones.

38:26.314 --> 38:27.395
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, please.

38:29.757 --> 38:34.520
[SPEAKER_01]: One is, and you got to do this with care and with some structure.

38:35.321 --> 38:37.422
[SPEAKER_01]: And I talked a little more about it in the book.

38:37.743 --> 38:40.685
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to let barking dogs in the room.

38:42.486 --> 38:51.553
[SPEAKER_01]: Meaning, the people who are complaining, some of them need a seat in the room when you're talking about a problem.

38:52.458 --> 39:05.473
[SPEAKER_01]: If they don't have a seat in the room, they will in fact talk anyway, but they'll be talking without full information, without knowledge of what's transpiring.

39:06.214 --> 39:09.778
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you gotta let some of the barking dogs into the room.

39:11.042 --> 39:14.863
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an expression by the way that one of my executives used.

39:14.923 --> 39:16.943
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, this guy's driving me crazy.

39:17.024 --> 39:17.764
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is he in this?

39:17.824 --> 39:20.904
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, hi, but you got to let the parking that you got to let some parking talks in.

39:21.405 --> 39:23.185
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, okay, that makes sense.

39:23.725 --> 39:25.146
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I am planet.

39:25.166 --> 39:25.686
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's another one.

39:26.966 --> 39:28.086
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing's a really, really tough.

39:30.887 --> 39:34.808
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a technique that I talk at length about in the book, called Listen Till They Drop.

39:36.448 --> 39:38.129
[SPEAKER_01]: listen to they drop.

39:38.689 --> 39:48.053
[SPEAKER_01]: And I tell a story about how upset people were with me over my decisions on the original version of the online platform.

39:49.093 --> 39:52.316
[SPEAKER_01]: And I decided that what I needed them to do is to just let them fend.

39:53.197 --> 39:58.381
[SPEAKER_01]: And I needed to just shut the bad word bad word up to shut up me.

39:59.122 --> 40:06.308
[SPEAKER_01]: And just let them vent and write down on I did flip charts, write down on the flip chart, every single complaint they had.

40:07.009 --> 40:11.453
[SPEAKER_01]: And in my mind, in my mind, all I could say is thank you, what else?

40:12.133 --> 40:13.034
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much, what else?

40:13.635 --> 40:16.137
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some of the things they gave me were still been,

40:16.760 --> 40:18.581
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like same, what's wrong with you?

40:18.601 --> 40:20.881
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a bad, seriously, that's a complaint.

40:21.701 --> 40:23.622
[SPEAKER_01]: What I said, thank you, what else?

40:24.302 --> 40:30.324
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was going through my head that that was not a legitimate complaint, but I couldn't say I had to take them all.

40:31.724 --> 40:34.025
[SPEAKER_01]: I let them do it for two and a half hours.

40:35.143 --> 40:35.844
[SPEAKER_01]: I have wallpaper.

40:35.864 --> 40:36.924
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot higher room.

40:37.625 --> 40:38.365
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two and a half hours.

40:38.685 --> 40:40.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Six, and I said, no brakes.

40:41.107 --> 40:43.268
[SPEAKER_01]: If you need a biobrank, go ahead and take it.

40:43.468 --> 40:45.190
[SPEAKER_01]: If you need, you need coffee, go get it.

40:45.730 --> 40:50.873
[SPEAKER_01]: So people didn't want to leave because they were, well, they were enjoying seeing me get beat up for two and a half hours.

40:51.614 --> 41:01.480
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of two and a half hours, and it's the story's longer than this, believe it or not, but at the end of two and a half hours, they were so tired.

41:02.568 --> 41:17.394
[SPEAKER_01]: of venting that I then gave them the idea that I went in with, but I knew if I went in with the idea and just presented it, they wouldn't listen.

41:17.714 --> 41:20.635
[SPEAKER_01]: They wouldn't hear me at all because they needed to vent.

41:22.226 --> 41:25.008
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, are you open to an idea?

41:25.028 --> 41:31.312
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, yes, and my idea was, let's form a project board, and we'll triage, they had 600 items.

41:31.352 --> 41:36.736
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, we'll triage this list of hundreds of items and the project board will make the decisions.

41:36.916 --> 41:41.839
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't make any decision, it'll be all the project boards decision.

41:42.039 --> 41:43.380
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I have passed up buttons.

41:44.290 --> 41:47.652
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there's no part of the, you know, how long is C?

41:48.312 --> 41:54.976
[SPEAKER_01]: I passed up buttons in the button and said, Egg Buck, E, G, B, O, K. And they're like, what's this?

41:56.157 --> 41:59.458
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, hey, everybody, everything's going to be okay.

42:00.059 --> 42:00.759
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be okay.

42:01.680 --> 42:05.602
[SPEAKER_01]: You've identified all the problems with the existing system.

42:06.682 --> 42:09.084
[SPEAKER_01]: We as a group can make this right.

42:09.944 --> 42:11.365
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything's going to be okay.

42:12.019 --> 42:13.781
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they were like, can I have some more buttons?

42:13.821 --> 42:14.802
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to give them to some people.

42:14.982 --> 42:17.504
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't absolutely have as many as you want.

42:18.185 --> 42:22.950
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, there was no management in that meeting.

42:24.091 --> 42:24.951
[SPEAKER_01]: That was leadership.

42:26.733 --> 42:32.058
[SPEAKER_01]: And I went into it, it sounds like, wow, you know what you're doing.

42:32.098 --> 42:35.562
[SPEAKER_01]: But the truth is, I went into that meeting having no idea if it would work or not.

42:36.643 --> 42:36.903
[SPEAKER_01]: None.

42:38.263 --> 42:41.545
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew I was at a nexus, I'm not not to do the open two.

42:41.705 --> 42:43.426
[SPEAKER_01]: But I knew I was at a nexus point.

42:44.046 --> 42:45.307
[SPEAKER_01]: It was going to go one way or the other.

42:45.907 --> 42:53.711
[SPEAKER_01]: That that was either going to be the worst day of my professional career, or it was going to be the best day of my professional career.

42:54.571 --> 43:04.656
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm lucky to say it was the best day of my professional career because using those techniques and others, I allowed them to vent.

43:08.722 --> 43:11.224
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's worked out tremendously well.

43:11.244 --> 43:15.107
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we could not run B&I today without the platform win.

43:15.868 --> 43:21.832
[SPEAKER_00]: You must have had so many moments like that where you had a lot of hardship or stress or something you've not seen before.

43:22.613 --> 43:25.675
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you hold yourself together at those times?

43:27.196 --> 43:29.038
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I earned all this great hair.

43:31.373 --> 43:31.993
[SPEAKER_01]: I earned it all.

43:32.633 --> 43:33.894
[SPEAKER_01]: I was prematurely gray.

43:35.314 --> 43:40.975
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in my 50s and pretty gray, and my dad was 85, and he had darker hair than I did.

43:42.375 --> 43:46.896
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, stress absolutely does things to people.

43:49.156 --> 43:54.177
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've had a lot of stress and a lot of challenges, and that one was probably my biggest.

44:01.230 --> 44:13.479
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, I'd throw myself a pity party and I'd be down and at some point you have to say to yourself, um, buck up, buttercup, you know, focus on the solution.

44:14.080 --> 44:17.902
[SPEAKER_01]: If all you focus on is the problem, you become an expert at the problem.

44:18.883 --> 44:20.044
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, you have to focus on the

44:30.083 --> 44:34.687
[SPEAKER_01]: not the obstacles, hold the vision, not the obstacles.

44:35.167 --> 44:36.588
[SPEAKER_01]: There are always obstacles.

44:37.469 --> 44:39.611
[SPEAKER_01]: When I started being I, there were obstacles.

44:40.531 --> 44:43.834
[SPEAKER_01]: When we started franchising, there were obstacles.

44:44.274 --> 44:48.318
[SPEAKER_01]: When we started opening up in other countries, there were obstacles, I always held the vision.

44:48.578 --> 44:52.701
[SPEAKER_01]: When we got hit by COVID, there were obstacles.

44:54.082 --> 44:57.185
[SPEAKER_01]: There are always obstacles in every business all the time.

44:58.261 --> 45:01.143
[SPEAKER_01]: always hold the vision, not the obstacles.

45:01.424 --> 45:07.849
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, by holding the vision, you may have to change course a little bit to get to that vision, but hold the vision.

45:08.269 --> 45:11.251
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a key for being a good leader.

45:12.272 --> 45:13.193
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is profound.

45:13.213 --> 45:16.315
[SPEAKER_00]: There are moments like that in business when you're like, am I doing the right thing?

45:16.836 --> 45:18.857
[SPEAKER_00]: You start questioning yourself before anything else.

45:18.897 --> 45:24.502
[SPEAKER_00]: So holding the vision is extremely important that, yes, you set out on this path, and this is your path.

45:26.661 --> 45:31.782
[SPEAKER_01]: So I, and listen, so sometimes you know, you realize, okay, this is, this isn't working.

45:31.802 --> 45:36.344
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's what I did with, with the story, it's in the story of the online platform.

45:37.284 --> 45:38.885
[SPEAKER_01]: I realized what I was doing wasn't working.

45:39.085 --> 45:44.707
[SPEAKER_01]: I had, I still had a vision, but I had to make a big detour to get to that vision.

45:44.747 --> 45:49.048
[SPEAKER_01]: And so sometimes there's a detour to get to the vision you want to, that you want to achieve.

45:50.095 --> 45:57.036
[SPEAKER_00]: I know the AI tsunami right now that's going on is totally creating this kind of stress for some businesses, more so than the others.

45:57.457 --> 45:59.317
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it doing anything for BNI?

45:59.417 --> 46:03.318
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you trying to change some course here to adapt to the AI world?

46:04.278 --> 46:08.719
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're absolutely embracing AI.

46:09.239 --> 46:17.200
[SPEAKER_01]: I had the tech team come to me and say we have this idea for internal and they've done an external

46:20.151 --> 46:27.076
[SPEAKER_01]: it is integrated virtual assistant navigator.

46:28.657 --> 46:30.679
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, that's really an awkward name.

46:31.780 --> 46:36.003
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, I've been, it's an acronym.

46:36.843 --> 46:40.086
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, and they said it's ask Ivan.

46:40.926 --> 46:45.230
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Ivan stands for this integrated virtual assistant navigator or something like that.

46:45.590 --> 46:46.350
[SPEAKER_01]: But ask Ivan.

46:51.867 --> 47:00.674
[SPEAKER_01]: on our B&I Academy, where any member can get on and ask Ivan any question about networking.

47:01.574 --> 47:12.922
[SPEAKER_01]: And what the social media team did was with my permission, scrape all the content off of my B&I podcast, and I've got like 970 podcasts.

47:15.387 --> 47:18.088
[SPEAKER_01]: and use that for my response.

47:18.128 --> 47:22.049
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I got on and I started asking Ivan, you know, what do you do?

47:22.529 --> 47:25.370
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you walk into a room, what's the first thing you should look for?

47:25.390 --> 47:27.510
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I said, well, you should look for open tools and open threes.

47:27.530 --> 47:30.051
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was my answers.

47:30.831 --> 47:33.232
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think you can embrace AI.

47:33.452 --> 47:36.813
[SPEAKER_01]: We have an exterior external version of it.

47:37.663 --> 47:40.805
[SPEAKER_01]: for people who aren't in B&I, and they can ask.

47:40.965 --> 47:43.987
[SPEAKER_01]: So explain how B&I works to me.

47:44.447 --> 47:46.468
[SPEAKER_01]: And it'll explain how B&I works.

47:46.568 --> 47:48.730
[SPEAKER_01]: Or it might say, how often does it meet?

47:48.770 --> 47:52.112
[SPEAKER_01]: And what time do the groups meet?

47:52.912 --> 47:54.253
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they meet online or in person?

47:54.553 --> 47:57.455
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it would answer external questions.

47:57.495 --> 48:02.938
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have two versions of the ASCII, or ASCII, and an ASCII.

48:03.238 --> 48:04.520
[SPEAKER_00]: That's funny that you asked it.

48:04.840 --> 48:05.501
[SPEAKER_00]: Husk, I win.

48:05.601 --> 48:06.343
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't.

48:06.503 --> 48:07.023
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't.

48:08.245 --> 48:09.327
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have never thought of that.

48:09.367 --> 48:09.647
[SPEAKER_01]: I asked.

48:10.168 --> 48:15.836
[SPEAKER_01]: And I asked the external version I said, who's the founder of B&I and what's their story?

48:15.856 --> 48:18.600
[SPEAKER_01]: And it gave my story.

48:19.976 --> 48:26.378
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a great time for P&I because I recently met a founder and her company was called Call Girl for Higher.

48:26.398 --> 48:27.998
[SPEAKER_00]: So the name is quite catchy.

48:28.258 --> 48:36.520
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually what she does is people are fed up with the AI bots and they come to her saying, I want a real person who can answer my phone.

48:37.060 --> 48:40.181
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's providing, she's like a recruiter and she's providing these people.

48:40.721 --> 48:45.464
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the world is coming, you know, they're like, I don't want any eye person answering it.

48:46.105 --> 48:54.190
[SPEAKER_00]: And in B and I, you're going for these real connections because you're tired of all these bots and non-human components of business.

48:54.611 --> 48:58.113
[SPEAKER_01]: So you think B and I is going to grow and you're both, you have to both.

48:58.153 --> 49:00.255
[SPEAKER_01]: The AI can give, you know, um,

49:01.095 --> 49:07.198
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the ask I even really goes deep in answering questions, but the external can only go so far.

49:07.798 --> 49:19.944
[SPEAKER_01]: At some point it needs to say, and it does, we recommend you contact your local B&I director, click on this button to be able to get information on your local B&I director.

49:20.705 --> 49:24.947
[SPEAKER_01]: So it does go to somebody, a real human.

49:26.741 --> 49:28.242
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is important.

49:29.002 --> 49:41.850
[SPEAKER_01]: I think banks and Amazon, their AI bots make it just too difficult, generally, to get to a human, to talk about a problem that the AI can't respond to.

49:43.211 --> 49:50.715
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, press one, and then if that is the option, press three, then four, so it takes you for a longer route and you just procrastinate calling them.

49:52.591 --> 49:53.371
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

49:53.652 --> 49:59.898
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything else that you would like our listeners to know about networking or anything about B&I?

50:00.839 --> 50:10.389
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if they are interested in visiting a B&I group, we have tens of thousands, 11,800, go to B&I.com and find a group near you.

50:13.839 --> 50:29.248
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I also have a website, I've been myisner.com, myisner's MIS NER, and, um, I have, I've been blogging on it since 2007, so I have, I think, two or three thousand blog posts.

50:30.686 --> 50:55.343
[SPEAKER_01]: up there that are not being a centric but there's a few but most of them are here's how you network here's how you become a leader here's how here's how you scale your business and short bite size blogs some videos some written and go to ibnmyser.com it can be a virtual mentor for you and you can do searches on topics and find topics lots of information there

51:01.291 --> 51:03.812
[SPEAKER_01]: virtual Ivan on Ivanmyzer.com at some point.

51:04.132 --> 51:06.454
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Ivan so much for being here.

51:06.694 --> 51:08.395
[SPEAKER_00]: Please leave us with one last talk.

51:08.455 --> 51:09.115
[SPEAKER_00]: What would it be?

51:09.675 --> 51:11.937
[SPEAKER_01]: You know the old saying, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

51:13.717 --> 51:14.658
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's either one.

51:15.698 --> 51:17.439
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's what you know or who you know.

51:18.180 --> 51:22.002
[SPEAKER_01]: It's how well you know each other that counts.

51:22.962 --> 51:25.864
[SPEAKER_01]: If your network is a mile wide and an inch deep,

51:26.495 --> 51:28.176
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll never be powerful.

51:28.876 --> 51:32.417
[SPEAKER_01]: You need a wide network, but in places it's got to be deep.

51:34.818 --> 51:37.939
[SPEAKER_01]: I have some amazing contacts in my telephone.

51:37.979 --> 51:43.381
[SPEAKER_01]: Two or three billionaires who are, I have, as contacts.

51:43.401 --> 51:47.343
[SPEAKER_01]: And the question is not whether they're a contact.

51:47.643 --> 51:48.443
[SPEAKER_01]: I know them.

51:49.184 --> 51:55.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Question is, if I picked up the phone and called them, would they take my call?

51:56.715 --> 52:01.559
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I ask for a favor, would they be willing to do the favor?

52:01.879 --> 52:07.564
[SPEAKER_01]: Not just them, but other really important people for me, successful people for me.

52:08.024 --> 52:10.847
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just who you know, it's how well you know them.

52:11.387 --> 52:12.228
[SPEAKER_01]: It really counts.

52:12.368 --> 52:15.371
[SPEAKER_01]: Would they be willing to help you if you ask for help?

52:16.131 --> 52:18.413
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the piece that people miss in networking.

52:18.653 --> 52:22.897
[SPEAKER_01]: They just think it's, you know, they want the contact, but they don't know how to build the relationship.

52:23.779 --> 52:27.904
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's say you have a relationship that's deep, like 226, it's deep.

52:28.305 --> 52:34.233
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've shared a lot of dinners, coffees, you've held them out, or they've helped you out, so you build a good relationship.

52:34.253 --> 52:37.277
[SPEAKER_00]: But then after two or three years, are you just forget about them?

52:37.297 --> 52:38.478
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not texting you anymore.

52:39.179 --> 52:39.640
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you do?

52:39.680 --> 52:41.643
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you keep that relationship alive?

52:42.632 --> 52:51.738
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's benign neglect, benign neglect is easy to happen if you don't stay in touch with people.

52:52.118 --> 52:55.920
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's one of the things I love about social media is that you can stay in touch with people on social media.

52:57.081 --> 53:04.346
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there are people that I see often that will post on my blog or will post on my Facebook page.

53:05.244 --> 53:06.906
[SPEAKER_01]: And I see him, and I see what they're saying.

53:07.346 --> 53:09.228
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's those touch points.

53:09.268 --> 53:15.733
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, I post on other people's social media posts and comment.

53:15.813 --> 53:23.200
[SPEAKER_01]: And I made text, text, I text friends, really well known friends who are very, very successful.

53:23.240 --> 53:26.963
[SPEAKER_01]: I try to text them two, three times a year, maybe have a conversation.

53:27.344 --> 53:29.526
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to reach out and say, hey, it's been a long time since we talked.

53:30.006 --> 53:30.627
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing?

53:31.207 --> 53:37.713
[SPEAKER_01]: Might start as a text, and then oftentimes they'll call me and they'll say, you're right, it has been too long, how are you doing and what's new with you?

53:38.734 --> 53:42.978
[SPEAKER_01]: One other thing to do is to say, hey, do you have any new project?

53:44.139 --> 53:45.561
[SPEAKER_01]: If you do, how can I help you?

53:47.091 --> 53:58.039
[SPEAKER_01]: You reach out to those people, authors, writers, speakers, and you just say, hey, it's been a long time since we've talked and you're working on anything new, I'd be happy to put it up on my social media.

53:58.440 --> 54:04.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, those people are gonna stay in touch with you because you just reach out to them for no good reason, really, other than to help them.

54:06.246 --> 54:08.807
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the way you avoid benign neglect.

54:09.528 --> 54:11.770
[SPEAKER_00]: So the givers game goes beyond just networking.

54:12.150 --> 54:13.071
[SPEAKER_00]: It goes very far.

54:13.091 --> 54:13.951
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about relationships.

54:14.572 --> 54:14.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

54:15.032 --> 54:15.993
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about relationships.

54:16.973 --> 54:39.728
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... you can uh... do you have a book on givers game i do i've got a couple actually uh... i've got a book called givers game the b and i story uh... which is not available in book stores although i am gonna uh... doing i think it's a fifth edition and it'll be available on amazon i don't know and i'll have that but i do have another book that is available uh... on amazon it's called infinite giving

54:41.108 --> 54:43.629
[SPEAKER_01]: the seven principles of giver's gain.

54:44.310 --> 54:55.515
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's another very thin book, but it's really, it's about the key principles of what it takes to really learn how to practice giver's gain.

54:56.356 --> 54:58.257
[SPEAKER_01]: One of them is important, what they're all important.

54:58.477 --> 55:01.378
[SPEAKER_01]: But one is being an infinite giver doesn't mean you're an infinite victim.

55:03.380 --> 55:09.122
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can give and give and give and give and give and if you're finding that you're giving to somebody that is absolutely unwilling

55:10.619 --> 55:13.020
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be the wrong relationship for you.

55:13.500 --> 55:17.742
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't want to make it transactional, but on the other way, a relationship should be two ways.

55:18.562 --> 55:19.622
[SPEAKER_01]: It should go two ways.

55:20.223 --> 55:21.743
[SPEAKER_01]: I might be giving you referrals.

55:22.483 --> 55:28.065
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you're not giving me referrals, but you're giving me ideas and knowledge and support and help.

55:28.426 --> 55:30.126
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's give, it's okay.

55:30.546 --> 55:31.167
[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't have to be.

55:31.247 --> 55:32.667
[SPEAKER_01]: I give you referrals, you give me referrals.

55:32.807 --> 55:33.788
[SPEAKER_01]: That's always good.

55:34.268 --> 55:38.469
[SPEAKER_01]: But it could be, it could be, you know, one's a mentor and the other is giving referrals.

55:38.509 --> 55:40.090
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be any combination of those things.

55:41.115 --> 55:44.598
[SPEAKER_00]: But don't they say like you give to someone and then it comes to you from somewhere else?

55:45.078 --> 55:49.661
[SPEAKER_00]: So is it still, what do you think about this two-way traffic?

55:49.801 --> 55:51.583
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you have to think about it?

55:52.830 --> 55:56.731
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it does come around to you from other people.

55:56.851 --> 56:02.232
[SPEAKER_01]: Oftentimes, it comes around to you from other people because they've talked to somebody who you know and they've referred you.

56:02.252 --> 56:06.793
[SPEAKER_01]: It might not be the person in your being.

56:06.833 --> 56:10.674
[SPEAKER_01]: I group a might be for somebody that you've met in a service club or a chamber.

56:10.954 --> 56:13.035
[SPEAKER_01]: So things do come around.

56:14.075 --> 56:18.596
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I meet people who say it's just chance.

56:19.356 --> 56:20.237
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just chance.

56:20.357 --> 56:21.817
[SPEAKER_01]: And he gave me an example.

56:23.535 --> 56:43.944
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I got this referral, I've been a B&I for five years, and I got this referral and it was a really, really good referral, like it came to me from a B&I member that just happened to me, just bumped into somebody, didn't know them, bumped into them, and that person expressed a need for the service I provide.

56:44.584 --> 56:48.646
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they say, hey, I know somebody that can help you out and they say, do you, you know, are they good?

56:48.666 --> 56:49.927
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're great, I know them well.

56:54.518 --> 56:56.800
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, how many years have you been in Vienna?

56:57.320 --> 56:57.881
[SPEAKER_01]: It's five years.

56:58.261 --> 56:59.482
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, how many meetings?

57:00.163 --> 57:00.823
[SPEAKER_01]: Roughly are there?

57:01.283 --> 57:01.864
[SPEAKER_01]: Fifty meetings.

57:02.384 --> 57:05.747
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've done the 50 meetings for five years.

57:06.628 --> 57:09.790
[SPEAKER_01]: You've built a relationship with somebody that trusts you so much, they referred you.

57:10.531 --> 57:12.633
[SPEAKER_01]: And you think that's just chance?

57:13.793 --> 57:13.974
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

57:14.754 --> 57:15.655
[SPEAKER_01]: That was hard work.

57:16.756 --> 57:18.117
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how hard?

57:18.157 --> 57:19.818
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I, you know, you can do digging ditches.

57:19.938 --> 57:20.499
[SPEAKER_01]: That's hard work.

57:20.539 --> 57:20.999
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's work.

57:22.217 --> 57:25.318
[SPEAKER_01]: It's work, well, the relationships, it takes effort.

57:25.558 --> 57:28.039
[SPEAKER_01]: And that effort's probably better than work, but it takes effort.

57:28.460 --> 57:36.103
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you've been putting an effort for five years, you've got another referrals, but this really, really big one you say was just by chance, it wasn't.

57:36.683 --> 57:39.144
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been out there fishing for five years.

57:39.744 --> 57:40.905
[SPEAKER_01]: For systems.

57:40.925 --> 57:48.588
[SPEAKER_01]: The fish that you catch, they may think it's dumb luck that they got caught, but you don't, because you've been out there with the effort thrown that net.

57:49.488 --> 57:52.791
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's predictable for systems, resilience, all these things to count.

57:53.452 --> 57:53.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

57:54.332 --> 57:55.173
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have some time.

57:55.253 --> 57:56.534
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that is great, great interview.

57:56.554 --> 57:56.894
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, sir.

57:57.014 --> 57:57.475
[SPEAKER_01]: Having me on.

57:58.501 --> 57:58.861
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

57:58.881 --> 57:59.221
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

57:59.261 --> 58:02.603
[SPEAKER_00]: I went for reminding us that strongest relationships do matter.

58:03.303 --> 58:04.484
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you for your time.

58:04.544 --> 58:05.504
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for your guidance.

58:05.865 --> 58:06.985
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to have you again.

58:07.025 --> 58:09.446
[SPEAKER_00]: I just talk about the book givers game for the whole hour.

58:10.867 --> 58:11.848
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

58:12.268 --> 58:15.930
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would love to remind our viewers that you don't have to look outside for anything.

58:16.150 --> 58:18.031
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything you need is within you.

58:18.691 --> 58:20.072
[SPEAKER_00]: So go with it and enjoy your day.

58:20.372 --> 58:20.712
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.